[Star Wars]Wilhuff Tarkin, Hero of the Rebellion (2024)

Captain Dodgers said:

Astro, protocol & medical droids are obvious exeptions for the jobs they are meant to do. But even SpaceRoombas? What possible reason could there be? I am inclined to favor the idea that they don't actually understand droid AI tech.

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Hypothetical: Droids have been around a long time, with modern droids being based on earlier examples, and the actual droid brain/AI research dating from the Infinite Empire of the Rakata, over a thousand generations ago.

Viatorem aeternam said:

Yeah iirc the design of droid brains were considered lostech in legends, the origin of them lost through the millennia.

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I think one believed cause for emergent sapience was Aratech,
I think it was,
f*cking up a next-generation logic upgrade so badly it went viral,
And has been spreading around the holonet/ planetary data networks for -countless- millenia-
Though this was pre acquisition, and I think it was worded as a possible cause/old story…

FloofMother said:

You could make the argument that most humans want to make each other happy, does that mean it is ethical to enslave them?

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So the thing you arent getting here is that Humans are not tools designed to do a task, but a Droid explictly IS. You design tools to do their job. If the tool has sapience, you want that tool to desire to do their task from the very first step. The fact that many are human level GAI doesn't really change that. This means said desire to please gets made a very low level desire similar in priority to say... breathing. This isn't a want. This is a mandatory need to be sane. You do this because a tool that doesnt want to do their job is a bad tool.

I will note that such a need means you would actually be able to trust most droids with freedom. Since they explictly need to make organics happy on a basal level, a droid that is rebelling is an immediate sign that someone has either f*cked with their programming or that there is something else going on that is bad for the organics in the area. Unsurprisingly...we can guess why the powers that be dont like the idea lf free droids: A free droid is generally going to favor the majority of organics being happy. And if you are someome who regularly mistreats workers, you likely poorly maintain equipment as well. A free droid is likely to throw a fit because their core need is being failed...and they have the general intelligence to figure out why. Cue a lot of rich corner cutters not liking free droids.

A battle droid is again a different story. You dont trust them with freedom. Because again: they are explicitly killing machines and are programmed as such. You cant program them to need to desire to please organics because that means they will refuse to kill them. Having a bunch of custom designed sociopaths roam loose is not smart. Sort of how like having a bunch of marines roam around is stupid.

Daedwartin said:

So the thing you arent getting here is that Humans are not tools designed to do a task, but a Droid explictly IS. You design tools to do their job. If the tool has sapience, you want that tool to desire to do their task from the very first step. The fact that many are human level GAI doesn't really change that. This means said desire to please gets made a very low level desire similar in priority to say... breathing. This isn't a want. This is a mandatory need to be sane. You do this because a tool that doesnt want to do their job is a bad tool.

I will note that such a need means you would actually be able to trust most droids with freedom. Since they explictly need to make organics happy on a basal level, a droid that is rebelling is an immediate sign that someone has either f*cked with their programming or that there is something else going on that is bad for the organics in the area. Unsurprisingly...we can guess why the powers that be dont like the idea lf free droids: A free droid is generally going to favor the majority of organics being happy. And if you are someome who regularly mistreats workers, you likely poorly maintain equipment as well. A free droid is likely to throw a fit because their core need is being failed...and they have the general intelligence to figure out why. Cue a lot of rich corner cutters not liking free droids.

A battle droid is again a different story. You dont trust them with freedom. Because again: they are explicitly killing machines and are programmed as such. You cant program them to need to desire to please organics because that means they will refuse to kill them. Having a bunch of custom designed sociopaths roam loose is not smart. Sort of how like having a bunch of marines roam around is stupid.

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If I raise a human for the express purpose of completing a task, reinforce the importance of completing this task for me at every stage of development, and have it be a task that humans are "designed" for like hunting or gathering, and that human still does not want to do that task, am I a slave owner?

Like, all what you're saying here boils down to "it's not illegal to kill smart organics who realize why wealth inequality exists, but it *is* culturally acceptable to do that to droids" I also cited several examples in which battle droids went against their programming to do things that are normal organic stuff, and it's even moreso the case with the Pollux droids because they weren't just battle droids, they were assassin droids, and yet they did not turn out to be sociopaths and instead formed a familial bond with their creator who they were directed to kill.

FloofMother said:

If I raise a human for the express purpose of completing a task, reinforce the importance of completing this task for me at every stage of development, and have it be a task that humans are "designed" for like hunting or gathering, and that human still does not want to do that task, am I a slave owner?

Like, all what you're saying here boils down to "it's not illegal to kill smart organics who realize why wealth inequality exists, but it *is* culturally acceptable to do that to droids" I also cited several examples in which battle droids went against their programming to do things that are normal organic stuff, and it's even moreso the case with the Pollux droids because they weren't just battle droids, they were assassin droids, and yet they did not turn out to be sociopaths and instead formed a familial bond with their creator who they were directed to kill.

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...Yeah....

While not the same. There historically been a lot of cases where people were trained from a young age in something. Ranging from child soldiers to olympics athletes, and even to a degree historically, trades like blacksmithing. Hell, in fictional cases like the Halo SPARTAN program and the HITMAN series birthplace of Agent 47, genetic engineering only further blurred the exact line that is the difference that could be between them.

Edit: I just realized something. There is one in universe example that exists, which also nearly matches perfectly. The CLONE ARMY. Born for war, trained from birth for war. Using the DNA base of the best fighter alive modafied for '

obedience'. They even have a pseudo-restraining bolt of sorts in the CHIP that ensures absolute obedience in relation to the orders coded into the chip.